Margolis: You are best known for films grounded in a specific social or political context. What drew you to such an intimate story, about the aftermath of a love affair? Babenco: I don’t really believe that I am a political movie director. My strongest impulse has always been to flee from definitions, flags and ideologies.
I felt this was a story no one had told before, about what happens after an amicable separation and how latent love lingers on. Women tell me they can see themselves in the character [Sofia] who believes firmly that her ex-lover still belongs to her, and that despite his amorous adventures, love is a journey that will bring him back to her in the end. I think men can identify with [lead character] Rimini’s sentiments: the eagerness to be free of a failed relationship but also the kind of reverence he nurtures for what has just passed.
The movie centers on Rimini and Sofia ’ s sparring over what to do with their old photographs. To her, they mean everything. For him, they seem like a dead weight. He can’t even bring himself to look at them. For him, it’s like breaking some sacred oath, because the photos belong to the past. What’s important for him is to keep moving along and start a new life.
But Rimini never quite gets over Sofia. Each time she shows up in his life for no special reason, she provokes little domestic tragedies. Little by little, she starts to lose her mind. It’s spooky. Then she ends up in an organization she calls Women Who Love Too Much. It’s the same idea as Alcoholics Anonymous, but instead of alcohol, the dependency is on men. The idea is to regain responsibility over your own life. But she is saying exactly the opposite: you must awaken in the man the memory of the great moments you lived together so that he’ll finally come back.
What does this say about us? In the ’70s we were all talking about women’s liberation. Now women are even more aggressive than men in sexual encounters. They’ve reached the same level as men in this game. What is open for discussion is, when two people decide not to live together, which happens all the time, how should it unfold? What are the consequences of separation on good terms?
The film is full of strong women. Women are strong. That’s why we like them. This is not a movie against women. It’s about a man who loves women.
Yet Rimini strikes me as a weak man. He’s the exact opposite of the male model that the movies and TV sell us every day—the Gatorade boy who goes to the gym for six hours straight. Rimini is not a superman. I identify a lot with him. I am a fragile man. When my friends were playing football or working out, I was going to Bergman films. For me, women were always big enigmas, especially having grown up in Argentina, this really macho nation, where women are basically split into two groups: the ones you have sex with and the ones you marry and have children with. In fact, women breathe, they talk, they have dreams, they get scared. They are like us.
Gael Garc í a Bernal is the only big name in the film. Why is that? You know, Penélope Cruz was crazy about the script, but I felt the story demanded unknown actors. I was also looking for a great actor, who could take it from frame one until the end. Gael has less than 11 lines in the movie. His character says almost nothing. He’s always listening. For that I needed a great actor.
Although you ’ ve taken Brazilian citizenship, you ’ ve returned to Argentina to do your most personal movies, like a " Foolish Heart " and now this. Why? For many years I was running away from my home country. Someone told me once that everything you have to learn you learn by the time you’re 12 years old. I love Brazil, though I am ashamed to think of what Brazil has become in many ways. But I can’t forget I have an Argentine past.
