FINEMAN: In this campaign so far, what’s been–from your point of view–the most unfair or below-the-belt attack leveled against you?

DEAN: It’s not so much that it’s an unfair below-the-belt attack or anything like that. It’s that what we really ought to be doing is focusing on a positive message. We’re not going to beat each other and we’re not going to beat George Bush if our only message is negative.

But out there in Iowa in that mailing, didn’t you call both Gephardt and Kerry “Bush lite”?

Oh, I don’t see the mailings. I’m talking about being on the stump. God knows what’s going on in the mailings.

There are some people who would say that it takes a little bit of chutzpah for you to complain since at various times you’ve called the people inside Washington cockroaches–

That actually is not true. What I said was that they’ll be scurrying around in Washington just like cockroaches. That is not calling members of Congress cockroaches… A lot of the attacks are about putting words in my mouth that I never said. One of the attacks they don’t bring up very often anymore is the Saddam Hussein thing, that it’s not safer since Saddam Hussein’s been captured–because we now have 23 troops killed and we’re having fighter planes escorting passenger jets through American airspace. I noticed that line of attack disappeared fairly quickly.

Governor, why do you think that so many of the establishment-party figures have reacted with almost comic fear of you, like you’re some kind of evil force from another planet?

Because when you get cozy in Washington, you’d rather lose and maintain your cozy loser’s position than you would take risks and win with somebody from outside Washington. That syndrome happened to Bill Clinton. It happened to Jimmy Carter. If we win the nomination, it’ll happen with us. At the end we need to pull the party together. We need everybody–every single Democrat plus all the new people we’re going to bring into this election.

Do you think that President Bush–having captured Saddam–is tougher to beat than he was? His poll numbers are pretty good; the economy at least on the surface looks OK.

I think it’s too early to tell. The Saddam stuff is going to be temporary because we’re clearly not safer. I think the economy doesn’t reflect what most people think is happening in their own lives, so it’s too early to tell. Until ordinary people feel like their jobs are coming back and they can pay their health-insurance bills and their kids’ college-tuition bills again, I don’t think that the economy has turned around.

If the military would get Osama bin Laden in its sights, do you think that they should kill him on sight?

I think that is not my call. I’m not going to get into that.

If you were commander in chief, what would your call be?

If I were commander in chief… we’ve gotta get Osama however we can. If they have the opportunity to kill Osama, they have to do it. Bill Clinton signed that order in 1996 and I certainly support it.

But that would not afford him the opportunity of the presumption of innocence and an attorney, would it?

There’s a lot of stuff that gets totally jerked around. All this stuff about Dean says things that are gaffes–the definition of a gaffe in Washington is somebody who tells that truth but shouldn’t have. All that stuff about Osama is ridiculous. Of course we ought to off Osama. I was asked a hypothetical question about what would happen if Osama was captured. If we can get Osama, we ought to get Osama, however we can get Osama, period.

Do you have a deadline for removing U.S. troops from Iraq?

Absolutely not. I think that would be a big mistake. To remove troops prematurely, Al Qaeda–which was not in Iraq, but is now–will set up shop in Iraq and present an enormous national-security danger.

Do you see Jesus Christ as the son of God and believe in him as the route to salvation and eternal life?

I certainly see him as the son of God. I think whether I’m saved or not is not gonna be up to me.

Do you have a favorite Bible passage or book or theologian?

I like the Book of Job.

[Laughs] Does it strike you more personally after this campaign?

I’m feeling a little more Job-like recently.