NEWSWEEK: Prior to the Bali bombings, you repeatedly said there were no terrorists in Indonesia. Did you underestimate the problem? HAZ: The national police chief said the investigations into [previous] bombing cases were not connected to terrorists. When I met the radical Islam leaders, they all said they were not terrorists. I told them, “If you’re not involved I will defend you.” If they are proven to be connected, then I’m going to ask that they be arrested.
But it is clear that Indonesia has terrorists. And it appears from the confession by Amrozi, the main suspect in the Bali blasts, that there are some connections to Jemaah Islamiyah. We are very appreciative to the police for finding Amrozi so quickly. Whether or not Abu Bakar Bashir is connected to this should be proven based on legal procedures. Abu Bakar Bashir himself said that there is no Jemaah Islamiyah in Indonesia. So we don’t know.
But you don’t think so. So far we haven’t found it.
When people outside Indonesia hear the kinds of statements you’re making, some worry you’re not serious about dealing with terrorism. Terrorists will disturb development in Indonesia. They create instability. Therefore, when I was in Bali visiting the bomb site I said, “We must capture the perpetrators and masterminds, whoever they are.”
Do you believe the United States has been pressuring your government too much to arrest radical leaders? The United States has a very big interest in Indonesia. Indonesia is a debtor to America. It’s very important for America to see Indonesia creating stability and conducive security conditions. There are many American investors in Indonesia. So I think it’s normal.
That sounded like a very diplomatic answer. Things have been very transparent in Indonesia. It’s completely different from the New Order [Suharto] era. Therefore, everything should be based on the presumption of innocence, and letting the courts decide.
If the United States invaded Iraq with U.N. authorization, would you support it? If there’s an aggression by America against Iraq, it will have a huge impact on Indonesia, both in the economy and solidarity among Indonesian Muslims. When another Muslim-majority country is attacked, it creates a huge solidarity. Therefore, I disagree with it.
Why did you cancel your planned trip to visit Abu Bakar Bashir in jail? When we “visit” someone, it could be physically or just by sending a prayer. So there was no cancellation. If you visit someone, you can go physically or go via a prayer.
Do you still regard Abu Bakar Bashir as a friend? Yes, still. No matter what. God has shown his affection to him. If Abu Bakar Bashir dies, he will go to heaven.
